While were committed to long lasting products that hold their value, we realize audio systems are always evolving. @shkong78 Thanks for sharing your listening impressions of the Lampizator Pacific vs the MSB DACs as well as what you miss about the Pacific vs your Chord combo. - Up to 32 bit - 768kHz. I wish you would have had the Totaldac D1 Seven to try. The USB module is completely electrically isolated and is again a standalone module capable of 32 bit#768kHz, MQA decoding and 8X DSD. Congratulations on the upgrade and enjoy it in good health. Yeah, im thinking a post lock-down GTG is in order. You are using an out of date browser. Founded in 2010 Whats Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. The Discrete DAC we have here is the baby of the four DACs MSB produces, with the top-of-the-range Select DAC boldly proclaiming to be the worlds finest DAC. The demo model came in brushed aluminium but you can also get black. Id imagine that upscaling refers to increasing bit-depth (like from 16 to 24 bits) which adds "vertical" resolution to the waveform in theory, improving amplitude resolution making subtle low-level detail more natural and audible (among other things) if done correctly. There hasn't been any direct comparison of them with Select II, Trinity DAC, CH D1/C1, Totaldac D12 etc in Hong Kong yet. We are To each their own, but I think Chord sounds cold and artificial. Once complete there are measurements and functional tests before the final products are inspected, cleaned, and packed up ready to be shipped, but not before a white glove inspection by either Jonathan or Daniel. In comparison to spdif which feels more 3D but relatively smaller sound stage, with better separation, vocals are more focused/accurate, everything sounds more evenly balanced. Still, it's the way I prefer at this stage. The dCS Bartok was also interesting but, based on my research, I kept coming back to Bricasti. The best upgrade for Dave easy. I've had some excellent preamps in my system (Dartzeel, Absolare, Robert Koda, Kondo). us, over a 2 day test period come to the exact same conclusion. If I want to build a complicated system, I won't consider DAVE because for the position of DAC, I can choose from other brands (Totaldac, NADAC, Rockna, Prismsound 8XR etc) at the same price. There is no dark magic involved. Elevator Pitch Review: Built in America, the MSB Discrete is a modular DAC that also acts as a preamplfier, though, as supplied, it has no analogue inputs. this was how I originally decided to purchase the Select II as I was trying to hear another dac at shows that could do what I heard the Select II doing at a lower price. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Can't beat the form factor of it though, great for off a desk top. With two prime DACs, the MSB Discrete yields an unprecedented level of detail that reproduces the musicality, soundstage and texture of an original performance, bringing the artist to you. There is no such thing as a "FPGA DAC"! I agree with what you are saying but "far too often" the See what the reviews are saying. Aurender N10 is still not a USB only dedicated streamer so you will not hear what USB audio is fully capable off through Ms/Dave. sounds just like the Dave. Right now my favorite DACs in my system are the Pacific Microsonics Model 2 (for PCM), Phasure NOS1a (for PCM), Meridian Ultra (for MQA), and the Playback Designs MPS5 (for DSD128). It is a pretty DAC but usability is left behind. Does anyone have formula for that? So thats it and I think the only thing I think Ive left out of the build part of this DAC is the 3 buttons and the knob on the front panel which are used for manually changing the volume and menu diving, though all this can be done from the remote. To my ears it makes music sound unnatural. The in-house discrete design is then constructed into its own shielded CNC pocket for optimal isolation. Thanks for the suggestion ecwl. Fair enough if you know some of the posters here and their listening preferences. Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator, https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/absolute-top-tier-dac-for-standard-res-redbook-cd. Out of all of the DACs I've Wherever I read I see unanimous praise for the MSB Select II. You already have a very top tier DAC. Others might disagree but these are my findings. Impedance 100 Low Gain setting. You must log in or register to reply here. Also, it is worth noting I heard the v1 DAC 2X, not the v2. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/a-dac-that-crushes-price-vs-performance-ratio. This DAC is 11,000 and as such, it is a considerable investment to make, but I would suggest that this is not stupid money for the kind of transparency and clarity it brings. Rori The MSB Discrete DAC is an American made Digital to Analogue Converter costing 11,000 plus an extra 1650 for the second external power supply. Astrostar here, said it completely blew away any dac he had before, and mind you, he has the entry level AC model. The only true way for the end user to know what they prefer is through listening in their own system. 1 - MSB Discrete 2 - dCS Bartok 3 - Mola Mola Tambaqui 4 - Chord DAVE (add the M Scaler later) 5 - Keep my Ayre QX-5 Twenty, do nothing Thanks! I have personally not observed this - with either the DAVE or my Mojo. What makes you want to upgrade from DAVE? I think my DAVE sounds great with everything. I've had many world class DACS in my studio over the years and the Crane Song is as good as any no matter the cost. Then just stay with the basic Premier unit, and the power supply that comes with it. The MSB simply offered more of everything and to my ears proved again that a true multi bit converter/ladder DAC is superior to delta/sigma or FPGA DACs. But the majority of the time all 6 of CHORD Dave could be the most expensive deeply design DAC in the world and if you find it not your taste there is the best off the shelf DACs like akm4499 in Topping D90 for 699$ that could be even better than Dave. Roon/Jriver 22 -> Ayre QX-5 Twenty -> Ayre AX-5 Twenty -> B&W N802D (Transparent Cables). so these are less preferred. Stainless steel buttons arrayed around an elegant volume wheel to optimize performance and response. What didn't you like about the Dave? Rori is definitely welcome. The Dave as a DAC actually sounds decent. Thanks for the interesting reply, cmarin. "To be 100% honest we have A/B tested most of the dacs mentioned DAVE is the most advanced DAC Chord Electronics has ever made. I own the MSB Select II with the dual powerbases and 33 Femto Clock. This hobby is "highly subjective", influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions; therefore you can A/B a million different components and come to a completely different conclusion on how it sounds compared to another listener. I hope you understand. of the 5 systems are completely different, our rooms are completely different Up to 32 bit 768kHz There are some tonal differences too, but what you prefer will depend on your other equipment and the music you like. Less experience with Dave on DSD, plus Rob claims to no longer decimate. For sure with Hugo and Qutenot even debatable. Taiko Audio Extreme > Sablon Audio Reserva Elite USB2022/Sablon Audio Reserva Ethernet2020> Aqua Formula XHDV2 > Sablon Audio King Sablon Interconnects > LDR pre > PuLSar45 DC SE amp > Sablon Audio Reserva speaker cables (pigtailed) > Avantgarde Duo Omega( Duelund xover). To cut a long story short: A burnt in MSB Analog DAC with Power Base demoed side to side to a burnt in DAVE was no challenge for the MSB. And thinking more about it, the differences at the time could have been small because the noise level in my system at the time of the comparison were relatively higher than they are now. Very resolving, tone is on the cold side of neutral but otherwise pretty free of digital nasties compared to the cheaper Chords, and the stage is flatter than Keira Knightley. I like Aqua Formula xHD and Totaldac Six. I'm looking for suggestions between $10K - $12K. Euphony Summus, EtherRegen, MSB Discrete. Anyway, the little bit of extra detail on the strings, the attack, and decay are all there to be heard and its a marvelous thing to listen to. Once populated, the circuit boards are made into modules and then placed inside the casework. Well, you may not have heard a lot of high-end DAC's in your system, but the one's you've listed are pretty darned good. Pass Labs INT-60. It is not hard to audition these DACs in Melbourneand this is your best way to work out your own preference. Is it too hot to touch? I submit dealers use the statement "component X competes against much more expensive components" far too often. Check out our support page and technical specifications > Click Here, 10100007 - Discrete DAC with Supply- Gallery - 1200px, 10100007 - Discrete DAC with Supplies - Gallery - 1200px, 10100006 - Discrete DAC - Gallery - 1200px, 10100003 - Discrete DAC Badge - Gallery - 1200px, 10100005 - Discrete DAC MSB Logo - Gallery - 1200px, 10100004 - Discrete DAC Jack Panel - Gallery - 1200px, 10100008 - Discrete DAC Basemetal - Gallery - 1200px, 10100009 - Discrete Supply Options - Gallery - 1200px, 10100010 - Discrete Supply Cover - Gallery - 1200px. Cs | Critical Mass CS2s -> components, Isoacoustics -> speakers + subs | Adona Eris II rack on Herbie's titanium footers | Fully treated and dedicated 2 channel room. Personally we have A/B 76 different digital front ends. It's just more financially viable to me for the performance and price ratio. You go off people's opinions and hope it'll match your equipment and system when you put the hard earned down. They both use FPGA for their decoding. The evolution of the original irreverent and irrelevant and non-authoritative site for headphone measurements, i.e. Roon Endpoint If you go reference you will never look back. 2001-2023 Head-Fi.org. The bottom line for me is that great DACs can make a difference over good DACs. in this forum and they are all very good dacs. A modular I/O card keeps even the discrete DAC flexible, repairable, and upgradeable. Not a bad idea Snoop! I just heard DAVE directly connected to MacBook Pro via USB without any expensive cables, headphone amplifier, power conditioner. Although I would like to keep this as close to $10-12K as possible. Talking of cool lets talk about this remote. very important and our preference connection is an i2S connection. Well build a personalized offer for your existing MSB products that count towards a new DAC or amplifier. To be 100% honest we have A/B tested most of the dacs mentioned And now that my system is much more resolving, it's possible that the differences could be larger and my preferences could change. As the noise in my system keeps getting lower, the PM2 keeps reaching deeper to find even more musical engagement and purity in standard 16/44 files. DLNA Protocol. Like x 5 List luxury apartment hotels paris. I auditioned a DAVE (not deconstructed) and TT2 and found all Chord products lacked the musicality of MSB. frequency response graphs, CSD waterfall plots, subjective gear reviews. You'd expect Audiosanctuary to understand what a gutless amp sounds like, and at least put a headphone amp in front of that DAVE, if they wanted to sell people either the DAVE or the headphones. Personally we have A/B 76 different digital front ends.. By clicking links on our site, we may earn affiliate commission, but our editorial remains entirely independent and unbiased. The output modules are where the converted digital signals are output to analogue signals that our amplifiers can make use of and MSB make two flavours of the output module. It matches Chord Dave and Mscaler on dynamics with slightly more bass slam. Up to 4X DSD Since this forum is mainly USA based and we are in the UK, I have very little to gain business wise here. Australian Business Number 38 650 151 296, Digital Sources, DACs, and Computer Audio, Chord Dave vs Mola Mola Makua/Tambaqui vs Emm Labs Dac2x vs Rockna Wavedream. Would I pay extra for the second supply? The biggest question about this device is, Yeah listened to the same HEk V2 and Chord Dave with. But DAVE also seems to me to highlight the original recording so if the recording is flat, the playback sounds flat (still with great accurate timbre) but if the recording really showcase the soundstage and the 3-dimensionality of the instruments and vocals, DAVE really portrays that well. Look, says I theres obviously a fault with this unit as its lighting up, I can see it on the network and I can send tunes to it via the Stack streamer and Roon! We went through everything and I was getting ready to pack it up and send it back when I reached around the back of one of the PSUs and switched it on MUSIC!!! Its headphone amplifier is good but no match for higher powered units. November 11, 2020 in Digital Sources, DACs, and Computer Audio. Many competing DACs will have a more comprehensive display at this price and, more commonly still, an app designed for intuitive access via smartphone and/or tablets. So, essentially, around the back of this DAC we have XLR output modules, dual power inputs (more on this in a moment) the digital input module (XLR, RCA, and two optical), and the USB input. there are others I know about but Ive not heard them recently. All in all the Discrete DAC is beautiful looking, minimal, easy to set up (its all but plug and play if you turn both the PSUs on) and it feels like a proper bit of audio engineering. Over the air updates will ensure that your renderer always has the latest capabilities and ultimate convenience. Daedalus Audio Apollo 11's. REL S3/SHO. In my listening tests, I could detect no attribute that made it sound special. The other thing I've learned about the Chord Dave is it can sound very different depending on the interconnect and/or power cord used. Thanks. All rights reserved. It is my name after all! You must log in or register to reply here. This gives us lots of headroom for future sample rates and audio formats.. You are using an out of date browser. 2. Height with feet: 68 mm Weight: 8.2 kg, Accessories included: Manual Remote control Aluminum MSB USB charging cable 4 X Spikes and Cups 4 X plastic inserts Power connector splitter, MERASON FRROT DAC REVIEW The Merason Frrot DAC costing 995 isn't the first thing that comes to mind when we think of Switzerland. DAVE stands for 'Digital to Analogue Veritas in Extremis', a moniker that best reflects the product's . Perhaps thats a bit of an odd example for me to use as its a bit World Music but you are also made aware of the rightness of timing on percussive techno tracks. I'm not an absolutist, and frankly, I could be happy with any of the DACs I mentioned. Have you thought about hooking up a Blu2 to Dave? Thank you all for your answers. Oppo Modwright BDP-205 full mod. Going by the performance of the Mola Mola Makua (pre with dac module) it will be extremely good. @astewart8944--two years ago in Feb of 17 i did audition the original Formula dac in my system directly compared to the Lampizator GG 1.5 and the Nagra HD and preferred the Formula for its greater space, lower noise, and more neutral and fast presentation. sounds like a more transparent Chord Dave to my ears. In my assessment the Makua offered a more open and spacious sound. It would have been a different outcome though with the Cyrus pre-amp I previously owned, which cast a veil over everything. The MSB simply sounded more real to my ears and offered a more convincing soundstage and tonality and all the tiny informations in the music where integrated in the musical flow whereas the DAVE simply sounded flat and not realistic to my ears and even lacked those tiny informations. The sonic signature is detailed and yet easy to listen to, with the Discrete bringing a sense of the recordings scale (big or small) to the listening experience. Chord Dave Black New The Prime DAC With two prime DACs, MSB yields an unprecedented level of detail, reproducing the musicality, soundstage, and texture of an original performance, bringing the artist to you Ps Audio Directstream Dac Vs Auralic Vega Founded in 2004, Games for Change is a 501(c)3 nonprofit that empowers game creators and . subjective to a point and that is why we do blind testing and A/B testing with When connecting to the MScaler, Dual-BNC was used on the chord dacs with shawline digital BNC cables. Right now my favorite music player is from the same manufacturer of the Phasure NOS1a DAC: Stealth LPS running XXHighEnd software; again with the same caveat that I haven't heard a lot of the other highly regarded music players in my system. more might come to mind and I will add them. My friend who owns the Diamond DAC IV prefers the MSB. I think is a good general rule of thumb, but there are some very transparent passive pre-amps out there. And I've learned to be careful and not generalize how a component will sound based on show conditions or other systems. I suppose what Im saying (badly) is that the Discrete was true to the file it was being fed and I did enjoy hearing it allowed me to pull small details out of the mix Jazz at the Pawn Shop (DSD128) felt more lifelike and in the room than I am used to and raw tracks such as Phutures Acid Trax did sound rougher and really basically recorded. Also; recently MSB introduced a new interface that optimizes USB and adds fibre to reduce noise, the MSB Pro USB. Too objective for subjectivists; too subjective for objectivsts. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. I do however like the i2S connection better than any other It seems to me that manufacturers are jacking up the price for the perception of quality. Since the Topping D70s SINAD is ~120 dB and it costs ~$650, then given that "money is power" (as opposed to amplitude), I would expect the Chord DAVE SINAD to be at least 120 + 10*log($14,000 / $650) = 133.3 dB. let me know when it's on, I'll make my way down if I can. They are excellent pairing. The DAVE DAC does not perform anywhere near where it should. I hear the new Ayre QX-5 Twenty gives the DAVE a run for its money at $8950 but that is just hearsay. What is available on models higher up the MSB food chain is the ability to add an analogue module so that you can use the unit as a true preamplifier and DAC. It's better than the MSB Analog I listened to. The only true way for the end user to know what they prefer is through listening in their own system.. I would just add budget and the other components in the system are major factors to consider. Given your appreciation of the Pacific Microsonics DAC, I hope you'll get a chance to hear the Berkeley in your system as well. I called the distributor and we went through everything again. MSB Technology Discrete Modular DAC Page 2. And yes, you can improve it more by adding nice power source and cable. Anyone make that comparison? auditioned the Rockna Wavedream Edition DAC. Toggle signature. I've also learned that a DAC's performance will depend heavily on the music player. You'll be shocked by how much you lose by going through a separate preamp. Playing Gil Scott-Heron and Brian Jacksons Your Daddy Loves You from the Winter in America album gave me the same impression of a reach-out-and-touch soundscape with incredibly well-defined positions in the mix and a whole load of detail the over-driven sound of the electric piano at around a minute forty really stood out as being faithful to the recording; a case of high-fidelity highlighting a low-fidelity artefact? Whats Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. Chord Dave Replacement. Were constantly improving digital input modules to stay at the forefront of the high-end audio industry, ensuring youre always equipped with the most current digital file formats and interfaces. I wired it all up and the unit lit up but I could get no sound out of it whatsoever. Others might disagree but these are my findings. Links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Hifi Pig and Big Pig Media with appropriate and specific direction (link) to the original content. JavaScript is disabled. Please specify coaxial S/PDiF or optical S/PDiF. connection because it eliminates some parts and gets you closer to a direct I would have loved if you heard them in the same system for a direct comparison. What I do know is that the MSB brings an excellent level of performance by way of neutrality to a system that allows other parts of the system to do their thing its sort of the digital equivalent of a very (very) good cartridge. Some very good advice here. Great Dac but for me a NOS DAC (Metrum Adagio) won the contest over all the others Dacs I have tried so far. In terms of sound quality, it's the best digital front end I . Regardless if the buyer has never auditioned the unit, and found it corresponding to, Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / Empirical Audio reclocking system: Synchro-Mesh Reclocker driven by Dynamo Linear Power Supply, 2 x Reference BNC digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Less is More (LIM) DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors, on Sound Anchors Signature stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers / Cables: ZenWave Audio D4 interconnects, ZenWave SMSG speaker cables / Diverse Herbie's Audio Lab footers / Acoustic treatment: Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties (wool, polypropylene basketweave), Sure absolutely agree that paying that much money without auditioning (preferably in my house, with my own equipment, in my room) does not make much sense. Bespoke Audio Ultimate Silver TVC passive preamp, Totaldac xlr version D1-Drivers x2, Eisteddfod 340 & 840 amps, Magico S5 speaker, MSB Select DAC, MSB Select Transport, Nakamichi 700 XLE cassette deck, Taiko Audio Extreme Server, Tripoint Troy Signature NG groundbox, PLiXiR Elite 1500 isolation transformers. We have what I consider to be a pretty resolving system, but we also listen to music a fair old bit for pure pleasure and so theres a valve amp currently feeding our chosen reference loudspeakers though thats not to say this system isnt highly resolving in its own right. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates. MQA decoding We can operate our current DAC modules at up to 6 MHz for PCM and up to 50 MHz for DSD. 2. You must log in or register to reply here. How does it compare? It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $14,000. If I had been responsible for coding that display I would never tell anyone.